In which I am miserable and grieve for Torchwood

[galadriel1010]

I've spent the last year and a half in serious denail about Torchwood. I have Jacks and Iantos all over the place, in varying states of relationship settlement and happiness, different developments of Torchwood, different ways that the 456's visit was dealt with or not. It's been a great place to be, and I could stay there quite happily, hoping that the powers that be would get it and bring Ianto back and bring Torchwood back to Cardiff and I would be able to go back to it and go on with it.

Every single thing that I have seen about Miracle Day has damaged this, because Torchwood is moving on, but that's not... Torchwood. Torchwood was black and silver, dark but with sparkles, happiness and loyalty winning through despite everything. Children of Earth ripped that down and I chose to ignore it. Miracle Day is the show I loved as much as Torchwood was Doctor Who.

Since rm's awesome post and essay on grief and mourning for characters (which you should definitely read), I've been back through the spoilery reaction thread I was part of and actually laughed at our reactions. All the shiny shiny hope beforehand, the way we dismissed the rumours of Ianto's demise as ridiculous, the way I got drunk and squeed... the first time I can remember swearing on the internet when it all came crashing down and the denial with which we approached Day 5 (surely it couldn't be that nihilistic?) and then, at the end, the chorus of "they have to bring him back in the next series. They have to see that it makes sense."

We were right, and we were wrong. For Torchwood to continue as it was, it made sense for Ianto to come back. But what they did was ended the series in death and desperation...

And now they're starting a new show with the same name. Do I want to be a part of that?

Would you buy a ticket for a boat called The Titanic?

I can't give up hope that we'll get Torchwood back as it was. But I have to let go of how tightly I was holding it and grieve for the fact that I'll probably never see another new episode.

But get over it? Get over Torchwood?

Maybe. About 100 years after people stop writing Sherlock Holmes fanfiction.

Comments

[angelkitty101.livejournal.com]

*huggles you* I am so not interested in MD, it's unfunny. I don't think I've ever looked forward to a series less!

*more huggles*

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

*Cuddles* Why do we live so far apart? Why? We need pub and things, clearly.

[lawsontl.livejournal.com]

I'm clinging to hope that we'll be surprised. RTD has contradicted himself, changed his mind, and lied outright to protect spoilers in the past. Some of it, I wouldn't even hold against him, because you've got to protect spoilers!

The new books are a bit depressing, because they don't feature any of my favorite cast members. I mean, I don't hate Gwen and Rhys, but they're not the characters that really excited me. On the bright side, one of those books is about unearthing the Hub, and they find that Suzie's vault is EMPTY. So, um, yeah, once again, dead ain't dead :) Maybe Suzie and Gray are out there somewhere planning diabolical schemes. Hmm... plot bunny just nibbled at my cuffs.

But there's two more audiobooks coming out TODAY that still have Ianto in them. It's something!

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

I would put money on Suzie's return being something they thought of as a result of the "But characters die in Torchwood. Apart from Jack. And Gwen's the main character, so she can't die. And then there was Suzie... Now there's an idea..."

I am interested to find out if the new audiobooks are any good, but usually the unsanctioned fanfiction is much much better than the official stuff, because... it's written by fans. One of the things that annoys me about Torchwood is the fact that there are so few fanboys among the writers. James Moran is the only one who I think is really, really into it, and it feels like he was thrown in front of the train when it came to CoE.

[bk_forever]

*hugs* I'm completely apathetic about about MD, I've no interest in watching it whatsoever, but I've resigned myself to never seeing a new episode of Real Torchwood. That doesn't mean I'm giving up, or that I'm giving up HOPE - I will cling on to that to my last breath - but I'm trying to be realistic.

On the other hand, I refuse to let the continuing travesty that is 'New' Torchwood drive me out of the fandom - I'm staying, and I'll write it MY way, and read the stories of other people who are doing the same.

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, what I hate more than anything else is what it did to the fandom. It killed off the Torchwood Writers' Union, which was my first real internet home, and it's been the cause of such divisions and nastiness. All around, it sucks.

[lefaym.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

*Hugs* It's all lies. The 456 never came to Earth, never ever. And Jack and Ianto were on their honeymoon in Sydney when they came, anyway

[analineblue.livejournal.com]

I'm still on the fence about MD. Sometimes I'm really excited, because for all of it's horribleness, I really liked COE for what it was, and this seems like...more of the same, a huge overarching plot with exciting explosions and Big Things Happening and all of that, but... Then I think of TW without Ianto and without a hub and without all of the things that made it what it was, and I get really sad, and wonder if the whole thing will just be a huge disaster. XD; So yeah, I don't know. I hope I'm pleasantly surprised. *_*

...But I think what makes me the saddest is that I know I'm going to have to put Ianto out of my mind completely in order to enjoy MD at all, even if it's the most amazing thing ever. And I really wonder what that will do for my muse. *sigh* It's hard. :/

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

One thing that's making it really, really easy for me is the fact that it's shaping up to be something I really don't like. For starters, miniseries just don't hold my attention. If I'd been around to watch Doctor Who in the early days I wouldn't have got it, because I don't have the attention span.

I could never put Ianto out of my mind - he'd give me the cold shoulder for weeks. And I am quite reliant on him and Jack to get me through the fairly frequent bouts of loneliness, but that's a story for another day.

[totally4ryo.livejournal.com]

What badly_knitted said. I already accepted that I'll never watch new eps and buy books for TW again. They lost me as a viewer and consumer. Starz will lose me as a subscriber.

However as the other side of the random is fond of saying, Ianto and the others are characters. As such in what I write and read will always be about Ianto and Jack, together and alive along with the Torchwood I love. I'll accept no substitutes (MD)!

I'm glad to see my favorite authors will continue to write in the land called denial.
*hugs*

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

Denial is a good place to be. The fic is so much better than anything they can come up with *hugs*

[venusinchains.livejournal.com]

I'm afraid I've fallen out of the fandom entirely. I am curious about TWMD - I'll likely try to find it on darknet - but I know that my show is gone. I have zero expectations for the new one.

~~

I had no idea that there were new stories (audiobooks?) that include Ianto (and are therefore pre-COE?)! *is off to look*

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

I haven't fallen out of the fandom because I still love the fic, the characters and the fans (most of them). But the show itself... couldn't care less any more.

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

I was in it for the LULZ. Series 4 doesn't look like a cracky sci-fi show, so no, I won't be watching.

The show may be very good, they have a decent cast, some good writers others than he who shall not be named, but I'm so not interested in another repeat of the creator's favorite mantra "the people in power are irredeemably evil."

Governments do bad things and act in their own interests, politicians don't care at all about regular people. So? Tell me something I don't know. Show me something that I'm not experiencing every day of my life.

I do know one thing, I won't take ten hours of my life to watch something that has been done to death (pun intended) on sci-fi shows already, will inevitably bore and possibly infuriate me, and make me depressed.

I have real life for that.

[lawsontl.livejournal.com]

Amen!

I want my sci fi to avoid reality. That's the point, isn't it? If I wanted a show about government, I'd watch "The West Wing" or "To Play the King" or something. And I want it to be about the TW ensemble, not 50% more someone else. That's a lot of what bugged me about "Random Shoes." Eugene was okay, I suppose, but it was all from his POV and didn't really use that POV to tell me more about the team.

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

I think that Children of earth could have been really, really good, if they hadn't tried to shoehorn this Welsh sci fi show into it. It removed all of Torchwood's unique selling points.

[bk_forever]

Well put! I watch S.F. to escape from real life and the misery that's everywhere on the news, not to have it piled on top of me until I snap. For 3 months after CoE I couldn't bear to watch TV at all, I didn't want to see other shows I liked being ripped to shreds and turned into something I didn't recognise.

[fide-et-spe.livejournal.com]

I'm still in denial to a point, but not in the sense of thinking they would bring back Ianto. I mean if they had, then all well and good, but my denial has never really been about that. I think it's always been that I lost the show, and you've actually described the reasons why. I remember talking to a friend who hated CoE, she wasn't much of a TW fan, but simply enjoyed it if it was on, so sat down to CoE expecting the same. She said to me "But TW was fluff, it was fun" I think that even with the grimmest episodes, it was all sort of silly and with a big tongue in it's cheek.

I don't agree that you were wrong, or that anyone was. I mean really the fans that look down on other fans and call them wrong, or tell them just to move on, or somehow being a "good fan" is about being excited for the new series. Well it seems to me that they don't actually get their own message, because it is just a TV show, and as such, anyones reactions or feelings are absolutely OK. If they want to spend their money on sending coffee or making a shrine, it's all fine and doesn't hurt anyone. ALso the fact that stuff has worked for other shows means I can see the logic. I never did that stuff, but I think it's sweet that people did. The fundraising, again sweet. I really loathe how looked down apon and berated people have been. Also this framing of those not looking forward to S4 as "mental" or "haters" (a word that means nothing to me still, I think I'm too old to get it or something)

The other thing that I have actually pointed out a few times on discussions where people got up in arms about fans, is that often the people they were berating are teenagers. The people having a go, certainly in the cases I'm talking about, were at least twice the age. Seriously I would be mortified if the way I was as a teenager was being scrutinised and critisised. LEt alone to be told off by all these grown ups who think they own the internet.

Anyhow, sorry a bit of a rant there, but I think it's a natural process, and I suspect a lot of us will retain some bitterness about it all.

[lawsontl.livejournal.com]

If there'd been an Internet when I was a teen, my life would have been ruined.

I was lucky that I didn't get my first access until 1988, only to the Bitnet at that. And, back then, we really did stop and think a bit before we posted certain things. In other areas, we were insanely naive... see my ID? That's my real last name and initials. But that ID has been online since 1988, so there's such a trail associated with it now, it's pointless to stop using it.

Anyhoo...

[riftghost.livejournal.com]

Thank you for writing this. I think I need to take a step back from the whole thing. I really wish they had made MD some sort of spinoff. It's not something I want to watch. The format bothers me too. I LIKE the 'monster of the week'. Lots of ideas, ways to look at things, interesting places and storylines.

It's not my Torchwood and others will laugh at that and call me names, but its not the show I want to watch.

I need to read more fanfics and hang out on twitter less. Being on twitter makes me cranky. I just hope when it comes on, it will be easy for me to ignore. The really evil part of me hopes that nobody watches.

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

You will probably not be surprised to learn that I agree with you entirely. Apart from about needing to read more fanfiction, because I don't think it's actually possible for me to read more fanfiction...

Twittercan be a really cranky place to be, though. I'm fortunate that I have a whole range of different groups on my twitter, so I don't see much of what goes on.

[ms-bekahrose.livejournal.com]

I love that you wrote this. I came into Torchwood via COE and I enjoyed it - I was quite pissed off that four episodes in and they killed the one M/M couple I'd ever seen on tv outside of QAF and had a right old strop in the middle of my lounge, but... it's what grabbed my attention, so I can't hate on it like I've seen others do.

As for MD - I'm looking forward to it, but in the sense that it's going to be a new show, not the one I got hooked on.

I always thought that if a series 4 were to go ahead, we'd be seeing how Torchwood rebuilds. I love 'Monster of the Week' - it's what drew me to Buffy and Angel, and it's something that Whedon proved you could run in conjunction with a more over-arcing story-line. Each episode had a monster of the week, but there were still ties to a 'Big Bad' for the season closers.

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

I was really hoping to see how Torchwood would rebuild in Cardiff and how they would cope with an undefended and uncapped Rift, and how they eventually got Ianto back. One of my big gripes about Coe is that it just doesn't make sense in many, many ways, so there's so much explanation needed to write yourself out of it for fic. And, really, that ending? Cruel.

[lone-star-woman.livejournal.com]

Every time I look a the spoiler pics for TW:MD, it's like looking at an old boyfriend with a new girlfriend. And they're happy. And everyone is happy that they're happy. And I just feel gutted and stupid and bitter for not sharing in their happiness. Sorry, but I just cannot get excited about Gwen. I find her off-putting.

I've also tried to get into other fandoms, but it's just not the same. So basically, I've just been hanging on with some of the pro-Ianto stragglers, despite my inability to produce any actual fic.

*offers you a swig of tequila for the TW blues*

[fide-et-spe.livejournal.com]

Can I just say, that is such a perfect analogy! Plus, I do the thing of thinking "well they're not really happy, can't be because it's not the same"

Also hanging on with the stragglers. I not only can't get into anything else, I also simply can't even get into drama anymore, not in a big way. Now it's that I'll enjoy something when I happen to see it, such as Sherlock, say. But am not invested at all, and I have no interest in the majority of drama on the telly.

[citrinesunset.livejournal.com]

I hear you. I've been in denial a bit, too. Though to be honest, at this point I feel like I'm getting over Torchwood.

Which is both good and bad. Bad, because I don't want to be over Torchwood, because it was a lot of fun and my first "real" fandom. And I still love the first two seasons. But good, because I was worried that when news came out about Miracle Day, it'd sound interesting and I'd be tempted to watch and then I'd get more disappointed. But so far nothing has tempted me. I get that a lot of people are excited about it, but I just don't see it.

I'm more sad over the fandom than the show itself. I've been disappointed by shows before, but I was more invested in Torchwood and the fandom. I was determined for a long time not to "leave," but to be honest, I think that's happening. It's hard to stay into it.

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

I couldn't leave Torchwood fandom. Jack and Ianto are too persistent and I have too many stories I still want to tell (and I know I'm lucky there). I'll stay here and keep writing stuff as long as there's people to read it, I guess.

[coldwater1010.livejournal.com]

I'll probably stick around fandom as long as people are writing stories I want to read. I still enjoy that aspect, but I'm not bothered about the new season. All the stuff that made the show potentially interesting to me has been removed or watered down and while I like a good government conspiracy story I don't find Torchwood's version compelling enough to make up for the loss of the things I did like.Plus there are other shows I think do that stuff better so it would make more sense for me to watch them if that's what Torchwood is all about these days.

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

I'll stop writing stories with Ianto in about 100 years after people stop writing stories with Sherlock Holmes in. Or when I get published and have to write original stuff full time.