Ghost Machine rewatch

[galadriel1010]

Gun training scene:
Jack goes down there thinking 'work', Gwen definitely starts the flirting, I don't think Jack realises how hands-on he's being until she starts asking where he sleeps and stuff, at which point he starts wondering where she's going with this.

Ghost machine in the flat:
Again, Gwen seems unable to learn from anyone's mistakes. This scene also seems to imply that pressing the button is a choice, not a compunction, so she was just being dumb at the station, but it's still fairly early days for her at Torchwood.

Owen stalking Morgan:
Another who never learns from his mistakes. He's such a creeper

Bernie Harris:
Why is the entire team apart from Ianto there? What is Tosh's purpose? What's Gwen's purpose, apart from pushing things she shouldn't?
And why on earth does Jack let her take the damn thing when she has such a tendency to do that?

Gwen and Jack in the Hub:
She really doesn't get it. I get this far through the series and always wonder why she's still here.

Gwen and Bernie:
I like Bernie. He's a good character, although not nice.
Gwen also going freelance. She really is a liability

Gwen's pity party:
Hard to properly bollock someone who's already kicking themselves over it. Which is probably why she keeps on making the mistakes, because no one really corrects her. (Personal experience jading me here. Little brother used to cry whenever he got told off, so Mum would tell him it was fine and it ceased to matter, so he kept doing it. He stopped when he was about 15, though.)

Yeah, my view of Gwen is rather jaded by my experiences with people I've grown up with. She pushes a lot of my buttons.

Cannot cope with any more Torchwood. certainly can't cope with Cyberwoman right now. More ironing time.

Comments

[kelticbanshee]

Gun training scene:
Jack goes down there thinking 'work', Gwen defintily starts the flirting, I don't think Jack realises how hands-on he's being until she starts asking where he sleeps and stuff, at which point he starts wondering where she's going with this.

Amen to that! I've always thought that Jack has quite a lax concept of personal boundaries, even after 150 years in Victorian England... John Hart is even worse, so it may be a 51st century thing...

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

I think it might be a kickback against having to contrain himself during the Victorian era. He loves physical contact.

[kelticbanshee]

Something tells me Jack wasn't particularly restrained in his dad in Victorian England... ;-)

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

I guess it would depend. he would certainly have been restrained with male partners, because risking his own life is fine, but risking his partner's less so.

[kelticbanshee]

Point. It I think he would still have been a lot more hands-on than appropriate... :-) probably just enough that he could get away with it, but, you know...

[ms-bekahrose.livejournal.com]

I think what pisses me off the most, about the Gun training scene is...

Gwen's a BLOODY COPPER! Hello! Firearms training is a part of the, y'know... the training. Christ almighty, if she doesn't know how to use a bloody gun, what's she doing in the police force? - Though, my Godfather was a police officer for a good thirty odd years, and two of his sons joined up, so this could just be a personal irk.

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

Not here. Cops in the UK don't carry guns unless they're in a special armed response unit, so she might not even have seen one until she joined Torchwood.

[ms-bekahrose.livejournal.com]

Ahhh, okay. It still irks me though. LoL.

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

Guns are really not common here. It annoys me when Torchwood go running in with their guns out, because they'd get the police called on them every time and it'd be a disaster.

[eldarwannabe.livejournal.com]

It's one of those "American vs. British" things that tends to pop up in fic because most Americans don't realize how rare guns are in the UK. I wish someone had called out the team on it in the show, to make it more obvious. (ALSO THEY NEED REAL HOLSTERS. STOP SHOVING GUNS INTO YOUR WAISTBANDS. *cough*)

[ms-bekahrose.livejournal.com]

"Save an arse, holster your gun!"

[eldarwannabe.livejournal.com]

YES. EXACTLY.

[ms-bekahrose.livejournal.com]

I sense crack-fic in here somewhere about the time Jack accidentally shot himself in the arse, because 'Dammit, 19th/20th century weapons are just so tetchy.'... *snicker*

[eldarwannabe.livejournal.com]

HA! That would explain why he's the only one who even occasionally wears a holster! (Well, no it doesn't, but I've largely given up for sense from this show.)

Our volatile little 20th century weapons, with their unpredictable shooting...

:)

[lawsontl.livejournal.com]

Well, actually, they might HAVE a holster there. They make concealed carry holsters just for that location. They're particularly handy for women because many of us are too curvy to use waistband holsters without being uncomfortable.

More likely, though, it's just bad props work.

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

Concealed carry would make sense on the 'not freaking the locals' front.

[eldarwannabe.livejournal.com]

*googles holsters*

Huh, cool! Even those holsters still look...more secure, I guess, then just tucking it into a belt? I mean, I do that with things occasionally when I need to use my hands, and everything just ends up falling down. Which would be a problem if I were doing it with a loaded weapon.

I wish they used shoulder holsters more often. It's not like they try to hide the guns. Plus, they all have jackets. Ianto's already in a suit. Why no shoulder holsters??

I agree that it's probably just bad props work. Oh well.

[ms-bekahrose.livejournal.com]

They aren't very common over here either, (in the last twelve months, I've had the police at my house several times, and not a single gun in sight), but I do know that the police still train with them, as part of a requirement.

I've been trying my damnedest to research it (it could come in handy if it ever appears in a fic of mine), but so far, every thing I've read only mentions the Special armed response units, however, it neither confirms nor denies that police officers - during training - are trained in firearms, or firearm safety.

Personally, I think it's quite stupid that there is no information about it on the net, though three sites have all said, if I want to join the police force, I should research and know what I'm getting involved in. I'd like to know if I'm going to receive firearms safety training because... well... what if I need it at a future date after becoming a police officer?

[lawsontl.livejournal.com]

Check on NRA sites. Even though it's a USA-based group, they go into some detail on firearms laws in other countries.

[ms-bekahrose.livejournal.com]

Oooh, thank you :)

[idamus.livejournal.com]

I was kinda surprised about the lack on gun training of a cop, I've worked at a police station in Denmark, the guys/girls answering the phones in emergency wore their gun and all at work

I found the scene really sick, flirting over guns

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

Our cops are pretty much only allowed batons. And they still manage to kill people with them (only once in several years, and he possibly had a heart attack instead...)

Flirting over guns seems to be a common trope. Apparently they're supposed to be attractive? idgi

[lawsontl.livejournal.com]

The gun isn't attractive, except in the sense of crafstmanship. But once you learn to shoot, it's an adrenaline rush. The thrill of competence, learning to appropriately manage something dangerous, knowing you can protect yourself or your family in the worst circumstances. Or that you're prepared in case watermelons become sentient. Or zombies. The zombie apocalypse is coming, you know.

Oh, and BOOM! Because the boom is quite fun in a very childish way.

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

I don't understand why guns would help against the zombiepocalypse. They just keep going whatever happens to them. Stake-filled pits and cheesewire at knee-height will be a much better defence.

Or a castle. Boy do I wish my ancestors hadn't picked the wrong side in the civil war - then we might still have one.

And I get the competence and acheivement thing, although I prefer to get that from jigsaws, which don't involve going outside... My computer game choices say a lot about me, really.

[fide-et-spe.livejournal.com]

It's funny because that gun scene just makes me cringe a bit. It feels like Jack abusing his power, and you can't help but think that he probably does the same with all new recruits. I do feel like series 1 has a lot of strange inconsistencies, they say Ianto was supposed to die in Cyberwoman, so you do wonder if the screen chemistry between JB and GDL made them change their mind, and hence the first couple of episodes especially are a bit all over the place.

First time I saw these I was only just hanging in at this point, it wasn't until Cyberwoman that I felt at all committed.

[lawsontl.livejournal.com]

Dude, that scene kills me not because Jack is being Jack, but because there's SO MANY WRONG THINGS in terms of gun handling and training.

Bad firing posture.
Incorrect range protocol.
Bad grip.
Don't get me STARTED on a gun in each hand.

And, honestly, I don't care how good Jack is, you don't get THAT good with guns in one bloody grope and tickle session.

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

It seems like they did get a lot of work done after the initial grope (which seems to be mostly practical in an overly physical way apart from one gesture, actually... all I got from that scene today was that Jack is incredibly tactile in a slightly weirdly paternal way). But yeah, it did seem absurd to learn that much in one session.

But I've never held a gun, so I wouldn't know.

[lawsontl.livejournal.com]

I got my initial training from a cop, and I shoot fairly regularly. I cannot watch that scene without flipping out for all sorts of unintended reasons.

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

What annoyed me most about it was a) it coming so long after Gwen was given a gun for the first time and told them that she didn't know how to use it and b) the fact that she'd already been handed a gun and expected to use it if she had to and she was still surprised by getting gun training.

[lawsontl.livejournal.com]

*LOL* I NEVER caught that! Will have to pay attention when I do a re-watch.

*LOL* again for good measure.

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

It was her 'I don't even kill spiders in the bath' line, and I wanted Jack to reply with 'Neither do I, not with a gun, at least. weevils and other aliens intent on world domination or mere GBH though, shoot kill them all the time'.

Fluffy Gwen... how on Earth did she survive?

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

I really didn't get any attraction from Jack in that scene. Mostly just someone who appreciates physical contact but has sort of forgotten where the lines are, or hasn't realised that Gwen is letting him do that because she's attracted to him. Maybe I just like 'broken little boy Jack' too much.

[fide-et-spe.livejournal.com]

I get more harassment than attraction, in the way some bosses intimidate their staff. Jack is a bullying grievance waiting to happen.

Having said that, it's hard to know what the director intended. I just think maybe there isn't any chemistry between JB and EM, I find their scenes together the most cringeworthy in terms of bad acting, painful. Still clearly series 4 will see them getting together in a pairing reminiscent of Moonlighting in the lack of any actual passion.

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

I think he honestly sees them as his kids. It certainly seems that way through most of that episode, although that could just be because they're so childish in it. I had forgotten about the pity party, and I wanted him to send Gwen and Owen to their rooms. Then Tosh will be allowed to sit up and watch TV with the grownups.

[coldwater1010.livejournal.com]

I guess Jack's idea of weapons training explains why his crack team is so easily disarmed in Countrycide.

[lawsontl.livejournal.com]

And why they thought they could just shoot at a super dooper alien fish tank and have a Earth-standard bullet penetrate it.

Riiiight...

It's that whole deal where people just do NOT understand guns. I think the writers suffer from that. Guns don't shoot themselves. They rarely, if ever, fire when dropped or "accidentally." It takes special bullets to pierce many surfaces, not the stuff you can buy at WalMart. People do NOT convulse and leap three feet backwards when shot.

All that being said, basic gun training enforces the concept that ALL guns are loaded, and that you NEVER point a weapon at someone/something you don't intend to shoot.

Tosh is the only character on the show who handles her weapon properly. I applauded when I saw her holding her finger outside the trigger guard as she investigated an area. And Naoko played Tosh's shooting perfectly, just a cringe as the pain bloomed.

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

I'm guessing that Torchwood's bullets are a bit beyond the earth standard, at the very least. They come up agianst too many aliens with extra biological defenses to go with the normal. Elephant bullets at the very least.

*Full disclaimer, I know next to nothing about guns, and the bit I do know is that I wish they didn't exist. And they kill people*

[lawsontl.livejournal.com]

I completely understand where you're coming from and empathize with how you feel.

Unfortunately, the gun "cat" is out of the bag. As long as humanity knows how to make one, the only way to completely defend against one is to have one (hence those special armed response teams).

A gun is an object; it has no will or intent. It cannot pull its own trigger. A human hand is what makes it lethal. Until then, it only has the potential to be dangerous.

Humanity puts much of its creative power into devising new ways to kill one another. You get rid of guns, people find other ways to kill. I've read studies that show just that. Apparently the UK is now starting to add restrictions on knives to try to reduce the uptick in knife crimes now that it's so hard to get guns.

We're all a sick and twisted lot. I figure it's better to face my fears, learn to effectively and safely handle the weapon and be able to protect myself in the worst of circumstances. I totally support requiring proof of gun safety training before you can buy a gun (we don't give out driver's licenses without proof of taking driver's ed, do we?).

At the same time, I hope that I never, EVER have to use my guns for anything but practice at a gun range. And taking out the occasional melon or water jug... Hey, they looked shifty!

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

Guns don't seem to be much of a defence or a deterrant. Sure, you might have one, but it's probably not going to help unless you take it with you to answer the door, which could be construed as anti-social.

Humans suck :( Knife crime has become a huge problem in some boroughs of London, and it's mostly people my age who just don't care.

[lawsontl.livejournal.com]

And I'll get off my soapbox now. *blushes* Sorry!

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

Soapbox away! It would be boring if it were only ever me doing it lol.

[coldwater1010.livejournal.com]

Ah Tosh. It's not like I expect a tv show to be 100% accurate, but I guess I never got the thinking behind making the Torchwood team seem so incompetent and amateurish so much of the time the way this show seemed so fond although maybe that was unintentional. But scenes like this don't exactly help with the taking seriously.