Am I being over sensitive?

[galadriel1010]

'Miracle Gay'. Not big and not clever. More immature and damaging, actually. If I thought it were a comment on how over the top the gay jokes are and the fact that it comes across as vaguely homophobic, then maybe. But I really don't get that feeling, I think it's more of the 'it's so gay' that's hurting young LGBT people so badly.

Comments

[morbid-sparks.livejournal.com]

If I'm honest, some of the undertones towards sexuality in MD have made me quite uncomfortable. Possibly it's just Rex's homophobia - because that's how he comes across, as a homophobic jerk. And Jack seems to have mutated into being gay, rather than being omnisexual as he always has been. Apart from a hint of brief flirtation with Esther in ep1, he's not flirted with Esther, or with ...the doctor whose name I can't spell or remember. It's all been with blokes.

[ms-bekahrose.livejournal.com]

I saw your comments on Facebook, and I can't say I am surprised at the response you received from the people you were interacting with. These are the same people who told me John Barrowman was a paedophile, and that Jack - as a character - was also a paedophile, because RTD was too and a whole lot of other bollocks to boot.

I agree with you whole heartedly, things like that (the "discussion" that eventuated on FaceBook, and how they are using the term in such a negative context) just continually perpetuate a cycle of using the term 'gay' as a pejorative.

Yes, there have been some very off colour jokes in MD, especially regarding Jack and his sexuality and insinuations that Rex might be quite homophobic, but, in the same token, I think the audience are made aware that thinking like that is definitely frowned upon by Jack and the other members of this motley crew.

Sorry, just wanted to make that edit so I was a bit more clear in regards to what I was talking about.

[beesandbrews.livejournal.com]

You've got John's redundant media line that they've really 'gayed up' Torchwood to throw into the mix. Although, from the sounds of it, most if not all of the portrayals have been negative.

Everything about mucking about with the poster read maturity level of 12, so I think you need to take it in that context.

I wouldn't read too much into it, frankly.

[sariagray.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I think MD (and the portrayal of Jack, really) is more offensive than GDL's defacing of the poster. That was...childish, but I didn't find it damaging, per se. I totally took it as a remark on the constant barrage of "this show is gayed up! There is so much gay! Look at all of the gay sex Jack is having! Listen to how every episode has a mention of Jack being gay!" rather than any sort of derogatory thing. I mean, as beesandbrews has said, John Barrowman has outright commented on the apparent "gayness" of this show, which frustrates me to no end; why is that a selling-point!? And why has he forgotten who is character is supposed to be? But then, I'm always easily frustrated by him.

Jack was once an icon whose sexuality, while a part of him, took a backseat to his personality and drive and history. Now, not only has the sexuality been altered, its been brought to the forefront as some sort of caricature, a stereotype that doesn't even make sense considering his past (well, future-past). While I can take or leave Jack, he was brilliant in that regard, I'll give you that much. I liked that aspect of his character, and I hate the constant media portrayal of gay men (and, apparently, omnisexual ones) that they're using in MD. Sexuality is no more a personality trait than, say, hair color or skin tone. They missed the mark on that this season.

As far as what they're doing with Rex, it reminds me a bit of Owen. The difference is that Owen wasn't homophobic (that was pretty much nixed in the first episode - homophobic men generally don't shrug and make out with other men, as far as I know) in the slightest, just a...well, Owen. At least, that's how I took him. He was more apt to challenge Jack's ridiculous stories for their over-the-top nature and the bravado behind them, rather than who the parties involved were. And I think that's what they're trying to achieve to some extent, but it's falling flat.

I don't know that Rex is actually homophobic. Or, if he is, I guess I mean I don't know that he's supposed to be.

So. That's my two cents, then.

[ms-bekahrose.livejournal.com]

I feel dreadful, because reading my comment, I've not made it clear that I am talking about the comments I saw on facebook (I'm going back to edit that in a tick).

I agree that the defacing of the poster was childish, and admittedly, I had a chuckle at GDL's antics, but I just wanted to say I agree - especially in regards to the Owen/Rex parallels.

I disliked Owen until I started reading fan fic, but he never once came across as a homophobe - at least not to me. Rex on the other hand... the insinuation is there, that he is, but it's never outright stated, so for all we know, he could be a live and let live kinda guy, but thinks Jack's jokes are in poor taste?

[lawsontl.livejournal.com]

I don't think you're being overly sensitive. You're trying to think out the possible impacts of words, and everyone should do that no matter which side they take in an issue.

But I'm with bees and saria on this: I'd be far less concerned about Gareth's intentionally juvenile antics as I am about the fact he was given such fodder to work with in the first place. I'm SORELY disappointed by all the gay jokes and representations in MD. If it's winking, ironic, tongue in cheek, or something, I'm completely missing the point. Spell it out for me, please, like you did the radical differences in lemonade presentation! Kthxbai.

[coldwater1010.livejournal.com]

Spell it out for me, please, like you did the radical differences in lemonade presentation! Kthxbai.

This made me chuckle.

But outside of that I agree with everything you said.

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

And let's not forget about Gwen's bit with the flight attendant - 'you're gay, you are so gay.'

I have to tell you that the Kai/Gareth panel was full of poking fun at JB. And there was a whole bunch of 'gay, he's so gay' stuff - but I do think that was in reference to JB's statements. Was I uncomfortable, you bet. Am I going to post about it, nope.

I had the same problem with the gay remarks in CoE. And I was told that it was 'gay TV for gay people' so I wouldn't get it. Uh OK. You won't catch me calling anything where characters get 'teased' in a similar manner about being Jewish 'Jewish TV for Jews.'

I think part of the problem is that RTD is the only producer (that I'm aware of) that is openly gay. So people want to defend him. But whatever his motivation, I think its really counter productive to have these throw away remarks. Maybe it is 'gay TV for gays' but lots of straight people, particularly young straight people see this - are we suprised when they then think that 'teasing' someone about being gay is OK? Maybe that's why on one of the major SciFi boards there was a thread titled, "ding-dong the queer is dead," cheering on Ianto's death because the show was too gay..with assorted jokes about him 'smelling queer' and 'taking it up the ass.'


I'd like to think that if Philip Roth was the only popular Jewish writer ever that I'd have the guts to say, 'I don't like him, I find him offensive, and yeah, I think he's a self-hating Jew.' Fortunately, I don't have that dilemna because there are many other Jewish writers who aren't IMHO self-hating Jews. But when there is only one openly gay producer I think its hard to acknowledge that he may not be serving the best interests of his community. But, not my call.

[eldarwannabe.livejournal.com]

You're inviting discussion and not, I don't know, throwing eggs at his house, so I don't think you're being over-sensitive, no.

That said, I don't think GDL was really making any commentary on MD at all, it was just an easy pun, if probably badly used. He's probably sat in front of Children of Earth posters at cons for yeeeeaaars, and he was just doodling on it for giggles. I don't think his comments were hugely damaging, but I acknowledge that I'm not exactly the crowd that would be hurt. (It also ends up coming across as unfortunate commentary on TW now, but I feel like he's not even watching MD, is he?)

As it seems your whole post has become a discussion about MD rather than the actual poster, I have this sneaky theory that the Torchwood producing people realize they have this crazy set of die-hard Jack/Ianto fans after CoE, and rather than realizing why we liked the pairing so much, just thought we liked the openly gay aspect of it. Hence the over-gayification of the show. This is, again, just a feeling I've got. And yeah, the way the show has been systematically harping on this theme, that bothers me. I can't imagine how other people must feel.

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

I've been feeling the same about it. If we take CoE and MD on their own, without the Torchwood history, they come across as a very homophobic canon, which is so disappointing.

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

I was so mad with them. I don't think that the message is coming across well enough if they're acting like this (not that they've seen Miracle Day, and neither have I), becasue they seem to have got the message that it's okay to make fun as long as you have gay friends or something.

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

I think Gareth mucking about was an alcohol content of 12. He's an idiot, and we've known it for quite a long time.

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the show (what I've heard of it, I'm still not watching it, and partly because of this now) is much worse than what Gareth did. I just don't like the message that he's sent out by doing it and the fact that his fans have picked it up like they're 8 and in the schoolyard.

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think the poster defacing came on top of everything else, and it was then compounded by seeing some SIJ girls (who I normally get on with) using Miracle Gay and telling me I was overreacting when I told them I was offended by it. It's seeing that response that makes me think I was right to worry in the first place

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

Mark Gatiss is also gay and just awesome. There's a lot of gay teasing in Sherlock, but it's never offensive like this.

And 'gay TV for gay fans', what a load of bollocks. It's aimed at the straight male audience just like everything else now. That was the great thing about Torchwood, it found a queer and female fanbase, but apparently we weren't good enough and he had to move on to 'America', which means 'straight, white America'.

I don't know if RTD is self-hating, particularly. I'd go for everything-hating.

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

I'm too lazy to egg his house.

What worried me was the fact that people might take it and run with it and use 'Miracle Gay' as the descriptor for it. And that happened, and they told me it wasn't offensive when I told them I was offended.

I am also super cross about the hyper-gay content of MD. I think you're right, that they wanted to keep the Jack/Ianto fans without realising what we were actually fans of. Failboat ahoy.

[beesandbrews.livejournal.com]

Yeah, he is. But come on ... he drew a mustache on GWEN.

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

I hated RTD's version of Owen. He got better under other writers, but it's getting past how awful he was in the first episode that's the problem.

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

And gave himself an afro, which almost balances out the fact that he called it 'Miracle Gay' and drew on Jack so that he was sucking a dick.

[morbid-sparks.livejournal.com]

Don't get me wrong, I love me some hot man-on-man action, but the gay sex scene felt shoved in to make a point - 'oh, look at us, we're so hip, we're totally cool with the gay thing'. Tbh the straight sex felt pretty similar, but combined with the constant undercurrent of 'omg Jack's gay and hitting on all the men around him'...

Are you up to ep6? There's something in ep6 that REALLY bugs me but I don't want to spoiler.

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

I've been following the recaps *sheepish*. I would have watched it if people with similar tastes to me said it was good and worth watching, but I honestly feel like learning Quenya would be a more productive and less stressful use of my time than watching Miracle Day

[morbid-sparks.livejournal.com]

Jack meets waiter. Waiter likes coat. Jack uses that as an excuse to flirt.

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I heard that :/ It's not even the right coat!

Mind you, if it were the right coat it would be like the waiter were flirting with Ianto, which would be weird and slightly awkward

[morbid-sparks.livejournal.com]

The whole thing felt to me like they were throwing a crumb to the fans. Except they clearly have absolutely no idea.

[fiwen1010.livejournal.com]

Having no idea seems to be their default state of being.